tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6768495027896028196.post723360011037737703..comments2024-03-26T19:08:32.544-04:00Comments on That's alls I know: Classic Doctor Who countdown (#158 - #151)Tommy Kraskerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12564935526936828636noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6768495027896028196.post-47393855411530470062018-01-22T15:50:16.884-05:002018-01-22T15:50:16.884-05:00I really didn't expect, when I began my latest...I really didn't expect, when I began my latest rewatch, that "Mindwarp" would drop to the very bottom of my countdown. But my response to it -- as it has been in the past -- was so visceral, in terms of the way I see it running counter to the very message and appeal of Doctor Who, it had to sit there. I think you're right: I think I *am* offended by mistreatment of companions -- but I think a good part of that is that the underlying reason for that mistreatment is often a behind-the-scenes chauvinism that I find hard to stomach. I mean, I remain a little horrified that Peri's ultimate story arc is that the Doctor basically holds her hostage for two years in what we would see today as an abusive relationship. And yes, back in 1985, we didn't necessarily define it as "abusive," but we sure didn't define it as "healthy" either. It absolutely impacts my ability to enjoy "Mindwarp" and "Timelash" and "Twin Dilemma" (which you will not have to look far to find; it's at the top of the next ten), and even -- to a lesser degree -- "Vengeance."<br /><br />Yes, as you say, Jo Grant is certainly a recipient of that mindset, and you will not have to look much further to locate Season 8 serials. (I bring up the Doctor's treatment of Jo in my write-up of "Daemons.") And I'm bothered by the series' portrayal of Leela (except when written by Boucher or Dicks), which I address in the next set of 10, under "Invasion of Time." But there's another element that bothers me too, in terms of the mistreatment of companions: when it seems only to exist to create contrived conflict. That bothers me with Harry Sullivan, a lovely chap whom the Doctor mostly treats with disdain. (I discuss it under "Revenge of the Cybermen.") I absolutely am not someone who believes that everyone in the TARDIS needs to get along at every moment of the day -- but when the message seems to be misogynistic, or the conflict feels contrived (particularly when it comes at the expense of good actors being allowed to do their best work, which I certainly find true of Ian Marter and Louise Jameson), it definitely bugs me.<br /><br />(By the way, you address a little of this in your review of "Ribos," as I recall -- that Robert Holmes seemed to have a very traditional way of looking at the role of the companion -- he liked the adoring women -- and whenever a character strayed from that image, as in Harry or Leela or Romana I, his impulse was to make them "unwanted" by the Doctor or to make them less capable than they might have been. At least I think you say something like that. I have been known to be delusional.)<br /><br />I saw the list of your least favorite serials that you tweeted recently; if you intend to read further down my countdown, beware: the placement of "Silver Nemesis" and, in particular, "Frontier in Space" will probably horrify you. And now I'm really dying to know what half-dozen Pertwees you'd place below "Monster."Tommy Kraskerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12564935526936828636noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6768495027896028196.post-71744003202598506352018-01-22T05:05:35.206-05:002018-01-22T05:05:35.206-05:00Hi Tommy,
Great post! It’s so interesting to see t...Hi Tommy,<br />Great post! It’s so interesting to see the clutch of stories you’ve chosen as the series’ worst. Only Underworld would get on to mine, but that’s just a reflection on how different everyone’s approach is. I’m only scandalised by your inclusion of Ghost Light (C’mon! Ghost Light!) but again it’s different for everyone.<br />I think I can detect one recurring theme in your selections though… a real concern when the Doctor mistreats his companions. Mindwarp and Timelash are prime examples, and Ghost Light has an element of it too, as you point out. Though I hadn’t picked up on the Doctor’s treatment of Leela in Underworld – interesting take. The Twin Dilemma can’t be much higher on your list!<br />So given all that, it’s surprising to me there’s not more Pertwee in the depths of your rankings. The way he treats Jo is pretty ordinary a lot of the time, often in Season 8 for some reason. And – lord help me – I don’t even think Monster of Peladon is so bad, particularly not its later Terrance Dicks written episodes. I have half a dozen Pertwees I’d rank below it! <br />And out of your 8 wooden spoons here, I don’t think any of them are unsalvageable. They’ve all got good basic premises, but many of them overreach their ambitions. Well, except The Reign of Terror, which is just a bit of a plodder. <br />By the way, you have quite the line in zingers! I like so many of them, but if I was to choose a favourite, maybe it’s: "Underworld" isn't just unoriginal; it advertises its unoriginality for those who might not have been paying attention. That takes guts.” LOL, as the kids say.<br />Johnny Spandrellhttp://randomwhoness.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6768495027896028196.post-35142881247260888032018-01-20T10:06:55.926-05:002018-01-20T10:06:55.926-05:00I love that you shot off a letter to Doctor Who Mo...I love that you shot off a letter to Doctor Who Monthly (I love even more that they published it); it's exactly what I would have done at that time in my life, too. What other ways did we have of our sharing our thoughts about our favorite TV shows? I'm delighted you chimed in on "Ghost Light," as it's obviously something Paul and Paul and I had been discussing above. I love hearing that you were entranced by the first two episodes, but that, when it was over, you were forced to admit you hadn't understood a word of it, and how deflating that felt. I think in some ways, nowadays we're more forgiving of that: we know we can instantly rewatch On Demand or via TiVo or DVR, and so we're willing to be entertained if baffled. But in 1989, unless you owned a VCR (and most didn't), you were watching a show once. The author knew you were getting one shot at it. And I think that's where "Ghost Light" fails for me in particular; nowadays, I would be more forgiving of the "it takes several viewings to understand it all" approach -- but back then, you only had one chance. I truly think it speaks to a problem with Cartmel that I've never seen discussed (I'm sure it's out there, maybe in abundance, but I've just not seen it). I don't find, as a story editor, that he's careful to make sure key plot points are clear and defined; perhaps, ironically, he was such an active story editor, so involved in the plotting, that he got *too* close, and couldn't judge the serial well from a first-time viewer's perspective, to properly underline the information we most needed. <br /><br />Meanwhile, with regard to The Prisoner and your self-perceived "double standard" -- well, we'd all be pretty dull if we weren't allowed the occasional moment of pop-culture hypocrisy...Tommy Kraskerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12564935526936828636noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6768495027896028196.post-65525257235456614432018-01-19T13:50:59.220-05:002018-01-19T13:50:59.220-05:00I watched Ghost Light on first transmission with a...I watched Ghost Light on first transmission with a couple of roommates, back when I was a student, and it's fair to say I was entranced by the first two episodes. The minute part three ended, another roommate - who'd been watching in the bedroom next to mine - poked his head around the door and said: "Did you understand a word of that?" We admitted we didn't, and were hugely disappointed. <br /><br />In those pre-internet days, I even shot off a letter to DWM (then called Doctor Who Monthly, I think), pointing out what I thought were the plot holes. They published it, in among all the praise! I think I was the first person in print to question the logic behind Josiah's plot to kill Queen Victoria. Wouldn't it just have hastened Edward VII's accession?<br /><br />Last month I completed my own [long overdue] Doctor Who marathon and was once again unimpressed. But I'm much more forgiving of The Prisoner's baffling and enigmatic last episode, Fall Out, which caused uproar in the UK in 1968. Indeed, I love it. A double standard perhaps?David Ryanhttp://ryanflair.org/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6768495027896028196.post-46674615236614584952018-01-18T11:35:30.669-05:002018-01-18T11:35:30.669-05:00That's so interesting to think about. By "...That's so interesting to think about. By "the greatest excitement a cliffhanger ever managed," I'm presuming you mean "excitement" as in "surprise," true? -- as I have to imagine there had been more purely exciting cliffhangers up to that point. But it's a fascinating point, because when I first watched "Monster," there was no surprise for me at that moment -- the Ice Warriors are on the DVD cover! So I wasn't able to experience that moment as you did originally -- and that's exactly the kind of surprise that the story desperately needs, that audiences are now denied. Anyway, as you know, since you and my friend Neil encouraged by Pertwee rewatch, my impression of the era has changed for the better. But "Monster" is still a stinker.Tommy Kraskerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12564935526936828636noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6768495027896028196.post-50125675223775011352018-01-17T16:15:39.760-05:002018-01-17T16:15:39.760-05:00Monster of Peladon is probably the worst Pertwee s...Monster of Peladon is probably the worst Pertwee serial, but that means it's still dearer to my heart than anything from 1981 onwards. Not better, just dearer. Before the end of Earthshock episode 1 (which seems to contradict what I just said, I know, but I'm not saying there was nothing good about 80s DW), Monster 3 brought the greatest excitement a cliffhanger ever managed. And even though the suits are showing their age and cheapness, not to mention the fact that they were not necessarily designed for the person wearing them, I can't hate a serial that has that many Ice Warriors kicking around.tjpieraccinihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00536427543616664938noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6768495027896028196.post-6828057367648827712018-01-17T15:22:19.308-05:002018-01-17T15:22:19.308-05:00So funny that you and Paul Dykes both posted about...So funny that you and Paul Dykes both posted about "Ghost Light" within an hour of each other -- it really is quite the polarizing serial! I responded to his comment first, but decided not to address (in my response to him) one of the aspects of the story-line that you mention as well: the fact that the serial is "hard to unravel in one viewing." Of course, as you can see from my review, I agree. And in fact, I think we're *all* in agreement on this one, as Paul notes as well that "the plot does make sense (after several viewings!)." I suspect it made much more sense to Paul after one viewing than it did to me, and perhaps to you as well -- but I suspect also (and Paul will tell me if I'm wrong) that so many *other* aspects of the story appealed to him on first viewing that he was more than happy to wait for subsequent rewatches to truly make perfect sense of it all. For me, after my first viewing, I was so befuddled that I didn't have much to take away from it at all.<br /><br />This is an element of Doctor Who that you and I have discussed before: that there are indeed episodes that demand repeated viewings -- and is that good? As we've discussed, a charge laid at Moffat often is that some of his stories aren't clear after one airing -- but I think you and I have always argued that although you might not get all the intricacies (or all the jokes, for that matter) in a story like "The Big Bang" or "Day of the Moon" in one airing, you get enough: you get plenty to absorb and interpret and enjoy, knowing you'll (probably) pick up more on the second and third viewings. My problem with "Ghost Light" (and I think, if I'm reading you right, yours as well) is that I hardly pick up *anything* on first viewing. Subsequent viewings do indeed yield more, but I don't take away enough that first time through -- for me, due mostly to the insistence of the pacing -- to make it a satisfying serial.Tommy Kraskerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12564935526936828636noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6768495027896028196.post-26790828894280444912018-01-17T15:20:57.637-05:002018-01-17T15:20:57.637-05:00Omigosh, please don't ever feel a need to apol...Omigosh, please don't ever feel a need to apologize for leaving a lengthy comment; I'm the guy who writes 8000-word essays on seasons of Knots Landing -- I like "expansive"! <br /><br />I so appreciate your taking me through your thoughts on "Ghost Light," Paul, and in particular, your calling my attention to some points that I had missed and mischaracterized. I so respect everything you see and say. Obviously, no two fans approach the Classic run in the same way; hell, I'm not sure there are any two of us who feel exactly the same about any *season* of Classic Who. We bring so much of ourselves to the serials, whether it's interests or background or temperament -- not to mention, for many of my friends, the sheer nostalgic memory of when they first watched and what they felt at that time: feelings that are hard to shake. <br /><br />"Ghost Light" is an odd duck for me. I can see (and even appreciate) so much of what you said, but it's one of a half-dozen Classic Who serials where my response is more visceral than well-considered: it gives me a headache. And I don't even mean that as an expression, or to be glib; sometimes, it truly gives me a headache. There's a relentless there -- as with a few other classic serials: "Creature From the Pit" and "The Highlanders," to name two very different stories -- that overwhelms me, that undermines my ability (and perhaps, ultimately, my desire) to dig beyond the facade, to the riches that you see and so eloquently convey. (It is a hallmark of the Cartmel era that troubles me, that I find gets more irksome with each passing season: a mistaken impulse that "busy" automatically translates to "involving.") <br /><br />I've seen "Ghost Light" four or five times now, and I keep tripping up on the barrage of images and characters, and what I see as a maddening insistence and lack of variety in pacing. I don't think I'm an unsophisticated viewer -- man, I hope not! -- but one aspect of my "viewing personality" that's become more pronounced in the last few years is my aversion to shows that seem too loud and too incessant -- and "Ghost Light" is one of those serials that I just cannot make peace with. I know there's a lot going on -- I know (as I mentioned in my review, which was probably too flip by half) that there are themes and allusions there for the picking, if I could just get close enough. But the tone of the serial keeps me at arm's length. And perhaps the very fact that the tone keeps me at arm's length irks me more than it should, and makes me doubly resistant to it. I see so much to partake in, but I never feel the serial welcoming me to indulge; on the contrary, it seems to be shutting me out.<br /><br />(As a post-script, my comparison of Six and Peri's relationship to Seven and Ace's was obviously overly simplified. I don't really believe the two are equally toxic, or that Seven is abusive to Ace the way Six is, relentlessly, to Peri. But I am troubled by the double-whammy of "Ghost Light" and "Fenric" -- in particular, knowing the former was designed to follow the latter. After what the Doctor has put Ace through in "Fenric," did she really need to face another set of demons so soon? It seems needlessly cruel to me -- not to mention a little monotonous. I see what you're saying about that being the very *point* of the stories -- that the Doctor is pushing Ace and preparing her for Season 27, and that's a concept I quite love -- but I'm certainly not aware of all that while I'm watching Season 26. I just see him needlessly toying with Ace -- and again, this is just me and how I respond to McCoy, but because I don't find his "darker Doctor" persuasive or intriguing, I don't enjoy watching that particular dynamic unfold within their relationship.)Tommy Kraskerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12564935526936828636noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6768495027896028196.post-17150274192788701812018-01-16T18:07:51.312-05:002018-01-16T18:07:51.312-05:00When I first watched 'Ghost Light' I quite...When I first watched 'Ghost Light' I quite liked it, but I was in my teens at the time, and the Victorian atmosphere, general weirdness, and the loveliness of Ace, all seemed rather exciting. As an adult, it feels more problematic. The story is hard to unravel in one viewing: which some feel is the mark of a good story, but which I see as a storytelling failure. I'm all for episodes which warrant repeated viewings to reveal their true depths, but I don't expect to be left baffled after one viewing. I should at least get something from the episode, and with 'Ghost Light', I didn't feel as though I did. It's full of events happening that aren't adequately explained, and poorly motivated people doing inexplicable things. I don't think Marc Platt ever wrote for the show again -- difficult really as it was cancelled two episodes later -- but maybe Chris Chibnall could bring him back? I mean, after Rona Munro's triumphant return, why not? *coughs*Paul Reedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02927027468227544676noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6768495027896028196.post-48103920863640025912018-01-16T17:20:15.088-05:002018-01-16T17:20:15.088-05:00Crikey, Tommy – it’s safe to say you and I disagre...Crikey, Tommy – it’s safe to say you and I disagree about Ghost Light! It’s one of my favourites. (We also disagree on what constitutes bad dialogue – I’ve always enjoyed the bus stations line (less so the “cruelty and tyranny” part)!)<br /><br />I love that Doctor Who’s format and longevity allows it to try so many styles and tones, and that it can create a story of such density but also such richness, repaying repeated viewings. I was a fan since I can remember, but I only started to record Doctor Who on video in its final season – so I watched Ghost Light dozens of times then, always seeing something new, and in my recent rewatch I still drew new things from it.<br /><br />It’s four episodes compressed into three, but I think that’s to its benefit, turning prose into poetry and giving it a pace that anticipates the 21st century series. The plot does make sense (after several viewings!). The Doctor doesn’t pull the assassination plot out of his panama hat; several scenes earlier, there’s this exchange:<br /><br />REDVERS: But I'm hunting the rarest creature in the world. The crowned Saxe-Coburg. Look. <br />DOCTOR: Really? And who's sponsoring the expedition, Josiah Samuel Smith? <br /><br />As to the relationship between the Doctor and Ace, I’m almost certainly biased in my view of them by the fact that they were the Doctor/companion pairing at a point where I entered my teens and became a full-on fanboy. That said, my recent journey back through the Sixth and Seventh Doctors’ eras has changed my mind unfavourably about the Baker years but confirmed my love of the McCoy years, even changing my mind about some of his early stories. <br /><br />Generalising to make a point, Peri has a pretty joyless time in the TARDIS with a bore-at-the-party Doctor who patronises her, bullies her and rarely shows any affection. When they’re not together fighting, she’s either being tortured or sexually molested. When the Doctor and Peri are shown to have grown closer by the start of The Trial of a Time Lord, they’re quickly split up and, in the next story, his mind is altered and we’re back to square one. They don’t even get to say goodbye.<br /><br />The affection between the Doctor and Ace is there from the word go and the chemistry between them is clear throughout their time together. By Season 26, the room to push the characters further feels earned; and it was so exciting that they were finally giving the companion more to do. This isn’t the needless haranguing of Season 22, this is the Doctor with a plan (apparently!) to prepare Ace for an apotheosis of sorts in Season 27, had it been made.<br /><br />As to how the leads play their roles, it’s exactly the clear affection between them that has meant that I’ve never questioned why Ace forgives the Doctor so quickly – I’ve always thought both leads give well-judged performances (excepting one intense grimace in Part Three..!). <br /><br />The characterisation and acting of the rest of the ensemble is to me entirely in keeping with the story, and with its generic reference points in Gothic horror, Victorian drama and Victorian novels, nonsense verse, etc. They are not all freaks; and the aliens and those who have been sent to ‘Java’ portray their otherness wonderfully. But characters like the housekeeper, Grose, perform a similar function to her namesake in The Turn of the Screw (and one of my favourite films, ‘The Innocents’ (1961)) – grounding the story and giving a glimpse of normality that throws everything into sharp relief. I’ve always loved the scene between Ace and Grose in part two, so nicely written and acted.<br /><br />Having said all that (and apologies, that was a LOT!), I can see where you’re coming from. I find it hard to be entirely objective about Ghost Light, but – while I’ve offered my different perspective on pretty much everything you said – I can imagine that approaching the story from a different direction or with a different set of reference points, I might have come to similar conclusions!<br /><br />OK, it’s getting late. <br /><br />Good night, sleep tight. Up the wooden hill to Bedfordshire, otherwise known as JAVA! Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08348022068318751727noreply@blogger.com